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Thin Ice:
Jewish Power in a Changing World, Part 3



An interview with historian and thinker Mark Weber.

American Dissident Voices broadcast for April 2, 2006
by Kevin Alfred Strom


WHEN A FOREIGN government -- a government which represents the interests of another people -- can covertly control our government, the results will be fatal for some of our citizens and tragic for us all. The foreign government will use the resources of its captive state to further the interests of the foreign people. It will not care if it spends half or all of the treasure of its captive people to advance its aims. The foreign government will not care if the sons and daughters of the captive nation are slaughtered by the thousands, as long as the interests of the foreign people are served.

That foreign government is Israel. The captive nation is the United States of America. And here to talk about the issues surrounding Jewish Zionist power, its trajectory in the near term, and its implications for the long-term future is the Director of the Institute for Historical Review, http://www.ihr.org, Mr. Mark Weber. When we left our discussion last week, we were talking about the Zionist attempt to hypocritically use the issue of Iran's nuclear program as a pretext for war. Let's rejoin that discussion now.

WEBER: The larger problem really is this: The United States is saying that Iran cannot develop even a peaceful nuclear program, but the United States sanctions and even supports the development of nuclear weapons programs in Iran's neighbors Israel, Pakistan, and India. From the Iranian point of view, it would be foolish not to have a nuclear program. On one side of Iran is Afghanistan, which is occupied by the United States -- a nuclear power. Another of Iran's neighbors is Pakistan, which has developed nuclear weapons. On the other side of Iran is Iraq, which is occupied by the United States, which, again, has nuclear weapons. And of course, Iran's biggest adversary is Israel, which has a nuclear arsenal that has been estimated at two hundred weapons.

KAS: So do you believe that Iran is indeed aiming at developing nuclear weapons?

WEBER: My guess is no better than anyone else's; I don't have any special insight. All Iran is asking for is the right to develop a peaceful nuclear energy program, which is their right under international law and under the treaties that they've signed.

KAS: It seemed very hypocritical to me to see George Bush condemning Iran for its nuclear development efforts just after returning from what I would describe as a love-fest with India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers in the region.

WEBER: I would agree. After India and Pakistan first detonated nuclear weapons, the United States imposed an embargo and sanctions on those two countries for a while. That's all been forgotten now, which is another reason why leaders around the world think that the lesson to be drawn from the United States' actions is that once you actually get the weapons, the United States will back down and shut up. That's the pattern that our government has shown over the years. Once a country actually has nuclear weapons, the United States seems to accept it, even in countries it wishes it didn't have such weapons, such as Pakistan and China.

KAS: What are our chances for averting a wider war in the Middle East?

WEBER: When a patient has an illness, it's important that the doctor correctly diagnose the problem. In our society it's important that as many Americans as possible correctly diagnose the problem that we have. The root cause of these wars is the Jewish and Zionist grip on our policy.

Recently a major new study was released by an important think tank that underscored once again the fact that American Middle East policy is firmly in the grip of what they call the Israel lobby, but which would more accurately be called the Jewish-Zionist lobby.

As long as our foreign policy and our political life are in this Jewish-Zionist grip, wars and conflict of this sort will continue, because it's in the interests of this lobby -- and in the interests of Israel -- to foment such conflicts in that part of the world. This is against the interests of not only our people, but of the entire rest of the world, except for Israel. That's why around the world there was universal opposition to the war against Iraq. Some governments went along with it, but the only country where the population supported the war was Israel, and a war against Iran would have no popular support except in Israel.

As long as this Jewish-Zionist grip on our foreign policy remains, we're not going to avoid these kinds of wars and conflicts. So addressing that problem and increasing public awareness about it is absolutely a task of the first order. Until that's done, we're just going to continue to have these tremendous problems.

KAS: Can you tell us the name of the think tank that issued the report on Jewish power?

WEBER: The John F. Kennedy School of Government. The report was issued by two professors, one at the University of Chicago and one at Harvard University. A summary of it appears in the London Review of Books, and we'll have it posted on our Web site. It's entitled The Israel Lobby, and it starts out by saying:

"For the past several decades and especially since the Six-Day War in 1967, the centerpiece of U.S. Middle Eastern policy has been its relationship with Israel." It goes on to say, "�the thrust of U.S. policy in the region derives almost entirely from domestic politics, and especially the activities of the 'Israel lobby.' Other special interest groups have managed to skew U.S. foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that U.S. interests and those of the other country -- in this case, Israel -- are essentially identical."

This paper underscores and emphasizes points that we've made over and over again, and that the world understands. A summary of the report reads as follows:

"The centerpiece of U.S. policy is the intimate relationship with Israel. Though often justified as reflecting shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, the U.S. commitment to Israel is due primarily to the activities of the Israel lobby. This paper describes the various activities that pro-Israel groups have undertaken in order to shift U.S. foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction."

A summary of this very enlightening report also appears in the latest issue of the London Review of Books. Now the sad fact and the sad reality is that our political leaders know this, of course, but it's precisely because of the power of this Israel lobby that they just do not speak out. This can't be emphasized enough. Right after the invasion of Iraq Senator Hollings of South Carolina stated publicly and repeatedly that everyone in Washington in any position to know what's going on understands that the Iraq war was carried out first and foremost to secure Israeli interests, but Congress is too cowardly and too corrupt to publicly acknowledge the fact.

Only individuals like Senator Hollings, whose term was coming to an end, have been able and willing to speak out publicly about it. Reports like this one by Professors Mearsheimer and Walt just confirm what any thoughtful, careful student of the subject understands, and that is that our Middle Eastern policy -- and our foreign policy generally -- is beholden to Jewish and Zionist interests. Until that grip on our policy is broken we will be subjected to war after war in the Middle East to prop up a country -- Israel -- whose existence is precarious and unnatural.

KAS: It appears to me that there is a growing informed minority that is aware of the toxicity of Jewish power in the West. However, it also seems to me that, just as you say, many of these people are afraid to speak out. What is going to be the lever? -- what is it that we must do to activate the people who have this knowledge, but are afraid to act upon it?

WEBER: I think all of us are doing a good job, but events themselves must and will bring this home to the American public.

I have said many times that it's very difficult to predict the future more than a year or two in advance. Almost no one accurately predicts how things will be ten years in the future. Or to put it another way, looking back at how things were ten or twenty years ago, we can see that the world is very different now. In recent years we've seen the overthrow of the Shah and the rise of Iran, the end of the Soviet Union and of Communist rule in eastern Europe. We've seen dramatic changes that -- in case after case -- were not predicted by the so-called experts, and I think we're going to see some very dramatic changes in the next several years here in our own country.

With those changes will come an explosion, I think, of awareness about these problems. I'm very gratified to note -- and this has been a trend I've observed for several years now -- that when I speak to a general radio public or a general audience about these issues, the reaction is very different than it was just a few years ago. Jewish-Zionist power and the dangerous role that it plays in our society is now understood in a way that it wasn't just a few years ago. I find that when I speak as a guest on radio talk shows, the callers overwhelmingly agree with and accept the truthfulness of these observations, and that the only objections come from either Jewish callers or from a very small minority of people who have just convinced themselves that whatever the President says is correct.

Something is changing very dramatically in America, and everywhere I see this kind of awareness growing. Another way to view this is that any thinking person who feels a sense of responsibility for our country can see that the direction that we're going in now is fraught with immense peril. There are very, very grave warning signs on the road, and, although our economy still cranks along, America is certainly not the country it was ten or twenty years ago, and this is more and more obvious to more and more people. All these developments are basically very positive ones, and we have to do everything in our power to open people's eyes, not so much with the expectation that we can compete on a one-for-one basis with the media that are in the control of our enemies, but more with a view to reaching thoughtful people who care about their own future, the future of their country, and of their children -- who will become the leaders who will be making the important decisions in the years ahead.

Something is really changing in America and around the world. We're coming to the end of the postwar era and of the model of the United States that persisted for so many years. We see this all over the world. In Europe there's a major crisis now over the direction to be followed with regard to the immigration policy that they've had over the years. Europe doesn't know what to do now about this very great issue. Similarly, there's a growing sense of unease here in this country -- a feeling that we cannot continue going in this direction, but very few people yet know what to do to deal with these problems in a conscientious way.

KAS: Well, I will say this: When the peoples of Europe and North America and people around the world begin caring about their future and the future of their nation with the same intensity and the same devotion of time and resources that the Jews have invested their people's future, then I think we will see a re-ordering of the world.

WEBER: In a normal society, people expect that their political leaders should look out for their long-term and best interests and that they are in fact doing so. Unfortunately, because our leaders have failed so abysmally to defend even our short-term interests -- to say nothing of our long-term interests as a nation -- it's absolutely necessary that more individual Americans take on that responsibility themselves.

There's been an abject breakdown of responsibility on the part of our leaders, but it's unusual and in reality artificial for most people to worry about these things. Most people try to live their lives taking care of their own immediate problems, such as making sure their family lives are good -- and that's why they rely on their political leaders to represent their interests. Expecting George W. Bush, however, or the leadership of the Democratic Party, to carry out policies that are in the long-term best interests of our country or the world is just absolutely fanciful; it's not going to happen.

KAS: That's where the informed minority comes in, or at least a minority that may become a majority of will and determination, because I don't think it's ever been numerical majorities that have actually made history.

WEBER: You're right; that's never been the case. A determined minority is always able to have a much greater impact on events than an inert, or passive, majority. That's the main reason why a group of people who make up only two per cent of the population in this country have the tremendous impact and influence they do. Jews have immense power and influence in America because they have a very strong sense of their identity and of their group interests.

The vast majority of Americans have been encouraged and trained to think of themselves only as individuals. Any group of people whose members think of themselves only as individuals is unable to implement policies that represent their long-term collective interests. That's the problem we're facing now in this country.

KAS: Yes, such atomized groups usually disappear from history fairly quickly.

Mark, I want to thank you for all of your efforts to provide the world with a window on the truths of history. I want to thank you for your efforts to avert a wider war and to bring peace to the world -- and a new paradigm to the world that will make long-term peace possible. And I also want to thank you for the excellence of your efforts and for being a guest on American Dissident Voices.

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