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Strike at the Root,
Part 1

Join us as we protest Jewish supremacism on the streets of Los Angeles; an interview with Mark Weber (pictured) of the Institute for Historical Review.

On today's program an important protest against the Simon Wiesenthal Center is announced, and we hear the latest on the charges against prisoner of conscience Ernst Zundel in Germany.

American Dissident Voices broadcast
July 24, 2005
by Kevin Alfred Strom


TODAY WE have as our guest the historian, writer, speaker, and activist extraordinaire Mark Weber, Director of the Institute for Historical Review. Welcome to ADV, Mark.

MW: Thank you very much, Kevin. It's a pleasure to be here again.

KAS: There are quite a number of things I'd like to discuss with you, Mark -- your recent speech in New York, your recent interviews with news services, your upcoming protests against the Jewish supremacists at the Simon Wiesenthal Center -- but first, let's get your perspective on the recent developments in the case of Ernst Zündel, the German-American artist and writer who has been subjected to a decades-long persecution because of his views on German history, Jewish power, and the history of World War II. I understand that after two years of incarceration on phony pretexts, Mr. Zündel has finally been charged in Germany.

MW: That's right. He was held for two years in solitary confinement in Canada as a so-called "threat to national security." This was a pretext, as even the leading daily newspaper in Canada acknowledged. After being found to be a "threat to national security" he was deported to Germany on March 1st of this year, and he's been held ever since in what's called "investigative custody."

That's a common practice in Germany and on the continent in lieu of bail, which isn't quite as common in Europe as it is here. One good thing about this development is that the conditions under which he has been held in Germany's Mannheim prison are much better than the conditions under which he was held in Canada. We've talked previously on this show about some of the harsh, draconian circumstances of his Canadian imprisonment, but in Germany his conditions have been better. Just a few days ago -- and this has been reported fairly widely -- he was finally formally charged, and I spent part of today trying to find out the specific charges. I was told only that he has been charged under the notorious Paragraph 130 of the German criminal code, which makes it a crime to deny the Holocaust as a form of so-called "popular incitement." That's the term Volksverhetzung, which is used in this section of the German criminal code.

KAS: Well, what does that mean -- "popular incitement?" Does that mean to get people excited about the fact that perhaps some of the Holocaust stories are not true?

MW: It's considered "incitement" even to say truthful things about the Holocaust -- or the Holocaust story -- that go against the official version. I cannot emphasize strongly enough that this is a blatant, grotesque violation of the principle of free speech -- a principle that the Western world, the United States, and even Germany claim to uphold. The Holocaust story is the only chapter of official history that it is considered a crime to deny.

Ernst Zündel is an outspoken international figure in this battle because of the tremendous legal fight in which he engaged in Canada during the 1980s in two very widely publicized trials. Actually, for the last several years, before he was arrested two and a half years ago in Tennessee, he was living pretty quietly in the United States and had given up his operations in Canada, but against his intentions he's once again been thrust into the international spotlight.

KAS: I understand there are 14 charges that have been laid against him. Is that correct?

MW: That's right. I've heard there are 14 counts, but I'm unsure of what the specifics are. In the preliminary indictment under which he was held before he was formally charged, the most ominous of these counts is that he "denied the Holocaust" on the Zündelsite, an Internet Web site that is actually run by his wife. The ominous and dangerous aspect of this indictment is that he's being charged for an expression of opinion that's legal in the country where it was expressed -- that is, in the United States.

I urge those listening to this interview to consult the Zündelsite to see what's there. You can find it by checking out zundelsite.org or going to the IHR site, ihr.org, and going to the links page. The Zündelsite is an American Web site that's maintained by his wife, not by Ernst Zündel himself. The Canadian and German courts have contested this fact; they claim that he runs it, but I know for a fact that that's not true. In fact, one of the strongest indications that this claim is not true is that for two years Ernst Zündel has been unable to operate any kind of Web site.

KAS: If she's committing this "crime," they would charge her if they could. They can't charge her, though, because she's an American citizen, correct?

MW: No, it's not because she's an American citizen. That's yet another aspect of this case that's very worrisome. If she were to go to Germany, she could be charged. Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany whether the person is a German citizen or not. Hans Schmidt was incarcerated for a time in Germany on similar charges even though he's a naturalized U. S. citizen.

KAS: So, if I "deny the Holocaust" through some statement I make today, for example, here in the United States, I could be subject to prosecution under those same laws if I went to Germany?

MW: Well, it hasn't yet been applied that extensively, but even if you were a German national here in the United States making a statement that's legal under American law, the implication of what Germany is doing is that you could be "held accountable." This would create international chaos. Imagine, for example, if a Chinese citizen were to denounce the Communist Party of China on an American Web site and then the Chinese government were to ask that he be extradited to China to be punished for expressing those views.

KAS: I would imagine that Chinese nationals have done precisely that.

MW: I imagine that has happened, but so far the only person to have been treated in this particularly grotesque manner has been Ernst Zündel.

KAS: The Canadian Jewish Congress' spokesman Len Rudner said that he was "very pleased" that the German prosecutors have charged Ernst Zündel, and that they were calling for what they called a "successful prosecution" in order to "completely discredit Ernst Zündel."

MW: Right. This is a point that I've made over and over, and I think it's an obvious one. Ernst Zündel would never have been extradited and wouldn't be in the situation he's in now if it hadn't been for the machinations of Canadian, American, and world Jewish organizations that have been working vehemently for years to lock him up and shut him up forever. I was very conscious of this fact when I testified before a so-called "Human Rights Tribunal" in Toronto on behalf of Ernst Zündel. I was very struck by the fact that there I was, testifying along with Paul Fromm on behalf of Ernst Zündel in this matter, but on the other side there was a small army of lawyers representing all of the major Jewish organizations of Canada, who were there trying to punish Ernst Zündel and shut him up.

Amazingly, they were trying to punish him for statements that had appeared on the Zündelsite that are legal in Canada when made in printed form. This makes the case even more grotesque, but these organizations are not at all interested in any kind of fairness in this matter. It's obvious that their motive is an intense desire for revenge on and hatred for a man like Ernst Zündel, who has had the courage to speak out against Jewish power over the years.

KAS: Ironically, it seems that they have given his work far more publicity than it would otherwise have had.

MW: That's true, but unfortunately, many people are so afraid. The fact that Ernst Zündel is in jail is a very intimidating thing. Most people rightly and understandably don't want to be put in jail and punished as Ernst Zündel has been, which really underscores once again what an extraordinary man he is.

KAS: Yes, very few of us would have the courage to go through what Ernst Zündel has gone through and remain defiant.

MW: He is both defiant and, in spite of everything, remarkably upbeat and philosophical about his situation; and this comes across to anyone who knows him well. It's also apparent in the letters that he wrote during the time that he was being held in Canada and in the letters that he's written since he's been in Germany. He sees himself as having been thrust onto the world stage almost by destiny, in spite of his efforts to live a quiet life in the United States with his wife Ingrid, who, as you've mentioned, is a naturalized American citizen.

KAS: Have you been in contact with Mrs. Zündel? How's she taking the news?

MW: Well, it's very hard for her. I was in touch with her today and I've been in touch with her pretty regularly. She's afraid she'll never have her husband back and that she may never see him again, because even if he's released from Germany, he's not permitted to come back to the United States now.

And she's in a situation in which she would face arrest herself if she were to go to Germany. She's been forced to be responsible for the tremendous legal campaign in addition to all of the other work she was doing before her husband was arrested. It's a tremendous burden and emotional struggle for anyone in a situation like this and it's really remarkable what a great job she's done carrying on over the last several years.

KAS: Did you find out when we can expect a trial? When will this nightmare be on its way to being over for the Zündels?

MW: She told me that she does not expect a trial before November at the earliest, so it'll be probably some time after that. I'm trying right now to get a copy from Ernst Zündel's attorney of the actual brief listing the formal charges against him. We want to do as much as we can to encourage publicity for this case in Germany itself and in the rest of Europe because Ernst Zündel is the most prominent political prisoner in the Western world today and his case should be given maximum publicity. It's really to the shame of groups like Amnesty International that they have kept their hands off of this case in spite of the outrageously unjust treatment Ernst has had to endure.

KAS: How can our listeners who may be interested in giving financial aid help support Ernst Zündel's legal campaign?

MW: They can send donations to his wife, Ingrid Rimland, whose address is given on the Zündel Web site that I mentioned earlier. Those who may encounter trouble accessing the site can also go to the IHR Web site; the Zündel website is linked on the IHR links page. [If you don't have Internet access, write to Ingrid Zundel, 3152 Parkway #13, PMB109, Pigeon Forge, TN, 37863,
USA.] That's the best way to provide support.

One ominous aspect of Ernst's current incarceration, Ingrid told me, is that he's now restricted to receiving and sending no more than two letters a day. In recent months Ernst has received as many as sixty letters a day, but his postal privileges are apparently being very sharply curtailed now, although, of course, he has been writing a lot from his prison cell in Germany.

KAS: What is done with the other fifty-eight letters that he can't see?

MW: I don't know, but it does indicate that letters sent to him now may either not reach him at all or not without a tremendous delay, or else they may just be sent back. All this is very sad, but that's the situation right now.

KAS: Mark, I see from the IHR website that you have some major activism planned for next week -- a protest in front of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles. With so many institutions of Jewish supremacism in this country and in this world, why are you protesting against the Wiesenthal Center in particular?

MW: Well, one obvious reason is that its international headquarters is located nearby -- it's in Los Angeles -- but another reason is that the Wiesenthal Center is just as culpable and just as dangerous as groups like the Anti-Defamation League or AIPAC in promoting Jewish Zionist interests against the interests of the United States and other countries. The Wiesenthal Center, however, has not been targeted until now in the same way as these other groups have because its emphasis on the Holocaust gives it a kind of protection or shield; the Center is able to claim that "to attack us is to attack the memory of the dead." The Wiesenthal Center is nevertheless every bit as involved in the larger Jewish Zionist agenda as groups like the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith and AIPAC, and it's high time that it be targeted.

KAS: Can you give us an overview of the Wiesenthal Center? Who's behind it? How was it started and what is its agenda?

MW: It was founded back in the 1970s and is headed by Rabbi Marvin Hier, who calls himself the dean. He has no real educational or other credentials except for this self-given one; he's a rabbi, and nothing more. Still, the Wiesenthal Center is immensely influential. It claims to have a membership of more than 300,000 and -- according to its last filing -- had an annual income of 25 million dollars. One of the most outrageous things about this income is that ten million dollars a year of it comes from taxpayer funds. Over the years the Wiesenthal Center has received at least ten million dollars in California taxpayer funding alone in through state grants. Much of this taxpayer money is given in return for so-called "tolerance courses" that the Center gives to police agencies, which are really just an indirect way of pushing the agenda of the Wiesenthal Center and other Jewish Zionist organizations.
[ http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/wiesenthal.shtml ]
[ http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=746 ]
[ http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2728 ]

KAS: It sounds like they have some friends in high places.

MW: Well, the Los Angeles Times Magazine had some revealing things to say about Hier. It said that "he has accrued unprecedented clout in the legislature, on Capitol Hill, in the city's boardrooms, and even in Hollywood." Apropos of that, he is the only rabbi to have received an Academy Award for a motion picture. This was for a documentary that the Wiesenthal Center put out. They've been able to get support from the current governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and they received the support of former President Ronald Reagan. Former U. S. Presidents, along with many governors of various states and Senators have lent their names in support of the Wiesenthal Center.

KAS: They pose as a pro-tolerance, humanitarian organization, but there's a little bit more to it than that, isn't there, Mark?

MW: There's a lot more to it. The real agenda of the Wiesenthal Center is a very narrow Jewish Zionist one and anyone who takes a look at its Web site or its magazine can easily see that most of its effort is spent in pushing Israeli interests and Jewish interests.

KAS: They support what is called the "Apartheid wall" or the "Security Fence" in Israel, do they not?

MW: Right. I'm sure many listeners to this interview are familiar with it, but for those who aren't, this is a really grotesque thing. This is a huge barrier that's been built on occupied Palestinian land that in many places is three times higher than the Berlin Wall was. It's been found to be illegal by the International Court of Justice and it's been condemned by the United Nations, but the Wiesenthal Center has fervently defended it in spite of its illegal and grotesque character.

KAS: I understand that there are some Jewish authors and Jewish advocacy groups that themselves question the ethics and agenda of the Wiesenthal Center. Can you expand on that?

MW: There's a lot of competition for money among these various Jewish groups and the Wiesenthal Center's biggest competitor for bucks is the Anti-Defamation League. The ADL is unhappy with the clearly reckless way that the Wiesenthal Center goes about collecting money. A few years ago the League acknowledged in an internal memorandum that was made public and reported in the Los Angeles Times that the Wiesenthal Center makes inaccurate and exaggerated claims about anti-Semitism in order to raise money. An ADL official cited a Wiesenthal Center fundraising letter that is, as he put it, "replete with factual misstatements and exaggerations about anti-Jewish sentiment in the United States and Europe." That's a polite way of saying that the Wiesenthal Center wildly exaggerates the so-called "danger to Jews." If you read any copy of its glossy, sensationalist magazine Response, you'll get the impression that brown-shirted storm troopers are about to take over all over the world. There's this persistent theme in the Wiesenthal Center periodicals that neo-nazis and dangerous people everywhere are just about to push Jews into gas ovens. The Center plays on fear.
[ http://www.ihr.org/news/swc.shtml ]

KAS: So, it's even too much for the ADL?

MW: It's even too much for the ADL. In fact, it's so bad, that when the Wiesenthal Center at one point put out a report about Switzerland during World War II, even Simon Wiesenthal distanced himself from it because it was so exaggerated. It claimed that during World War II the Swiss had locked up Jews in concentration camps and had mistreated them, which was completely untrue. This was part of the big shakedown campaign that many listeners might remember to squeeze billions of dollars for Israel and for Jewish organizations from the Swiss government, Swiss corporations, and Swiss banks.

KAS: Which was successful, I might add.

MW: Which was very successful, but also very grotesque. That campaign, in which the World Jewish Congress played the largest role, is still not forgotten by a lot of people in Europe, who are very resentful about the heavy-handed and grotesque way that Switzerland was targeted and blackmailed.

KAS: I understand that the Wiesenthal Center also has its hands in the education of ordinary schoolchildren, pushing their view of history and their very Jewish-focused agenda on the minds of vulnerable young people.

MW: That's right. Every school day busloads of schoolchildren are brought to the Wiesenthal Center. One of the reasons that I decided to organize this campaign is that I learned of a schoolteacher in San Diego who was unhappy that his children, who were attending a private Catholic school, were going to be bused to the Wiesenthal Center. He didn't know or understand as much as many people do about the Center's overall agenda, but he was particularly unhappy that Rabbi Hier and the Center have denounced Pius XII, who was Pope during the Second World War, and other Catholic and Christian leaders of the wartime era.

I've been struck by just how many people, no matter what their starting point might be, are offended at the way the Wiesenthal Center has handled this issue. Anyway, this man organized a campaign at his own school to dissuade parents from going along with the Wiesenthal Center visits -- but the Center continues to encourage them and is treated almost as a branch of the California government.

KAS: They have a close relationship with Arnold Schwarzenegger, do they not?

MW: Yes. Many people say that Arnold Schwarzenegger paid half a million dollars or more to the Wiesenthal Center, which then gave him a kind of "clean bill of health" after it was discovered that his father had been a member of the National Socialist party during World War II. This was sort of a way to "get him off the hook," so that he would not be being criticized for his father's past. Several years ago the state legislature gave a five million dollar grant to the Wiesenthal Center and tried to justify it by saying, "Well, it gets all these schoolchildren there." One schoolteacher remarked in response that thousands of schoolkids might go to McDonald's every day too, but the state doesn't pick up the tab for their lunches.

It's really outrageous that at a time when schoolteachers all over the state are asking parents to supply pencils and paper for schools, and there's a real shortage in the state budget for educational expenses and for highways, that the Wiesenthal Center has been given these millions of dollars.

Another example of the Center's power is the boasting of the man who's now the mayor of Los Angeles, Antonio Villaregosa, about his role in getting -- he said -- 18 million dollars for the Wiesenthal Center when he was in the state legislature. The Center is so powerful and so influential in this state that every politician must essentially go and make his peace with it and be given its approval in order to have an effective role in California politics.

KAS: If they didn't do that, what would happen?

MW: Well, all sorts of forces would be mobilized against them. What happens -- not just in California but in Washington as well -- is that AIPAC, the ADL, and the Wiesenthal Center insist that candidates declare themselves on the issues that are of great concern to American Jews -- and if they don't come up with the answers that these organizations want, then Jewish groups will punish them by supporting their opponents or, at a very minimum, by making sure that money for their campaigns dries up. It's a remarkable fact that, according to Jewish analysts of the American political scene, something like half of the money that goes to the Democratic Party's presidential campaigns comes from Jewish sources, along with about a quarter of the money for Republican presidential campaigns.

KAS: That's from two and half percent of the U. S. Population.

MW: That's from two and a half percent of the U. S. population. It means that Jews have more political clout and power than any other single ethnic or religious group in American life. It effectively means that Jews have a tight grip on political life in this country, and the Wiesenthal Center plays a very important role in this corruption of our political system.

KAS: What is the date of your demonstration, Mark?

MW: It will be on Friday, July 29th, at noon -- and we're going to be demonstrating at the offices of the Wiesenthal Center. We're encouraging people who would like to participate to contact us beforehand; they can contact us through the IHR website at ihr.org or by writing to my email address, weber@ihr.org . We're looking forward to a good demonstration that will finally focus some attention on the Wiesenthal Center's real record -- in a very public way.
[ http://www.ihr.org/news/050629_rally.shtml ]


* * *

Be with us again next week as we continue our discussion with IHR director Mark Weber. We'll be talking about even more of the outrages against freedom and free speech committed by the Wiesenthal Center -- and new efforts around the world to stop the Jewish supremacist agenda, its war of aggression in the Middle East, and the war of terror that has now come to us as a result.

I also want to let you know that this coming September 11 -- the birthday of National Vanguard founder William Pierce -- will mark our largest-ever organized pro-White literature distribution. National Vanguard's Western States coordinator Roger Williams has created two important new flyers focusing on homeland security and border control for this effort, and I'd like every American Dissident Voices listener to take part. To see the flyers and make your own copies for duplication, just visit nationalvanguard.org/911 or write to: National Vanguard, Box 5145, Charlottesville VA 22905.


Source: National Vanguard

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