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Zundel Persecution By Order of Jews,
Part 1

As discussed on this week's radio program, the twenty-year persecution of Ernst Zundel has nothing to do with the supposed "legal" reasons which are officially invoked -- and everything to do with Jewish vengeance and criminal Jewish manipulation of the legal systems of three nations.

An interview with Mark Weber.

American Dissident Voices broadcast
March 5, 2005
by Kevin Alfred Strom

THERE ARE MANY STRANDS that make up the knot of tyranny which increasingly binds the minds of men. But none are more obvious -- and none are more odious -- than the cords that bind a man who will, in my opinion, one day be regarded as one of the heroes of this age, Mr. Ernst Zundel, late of Pigeon Forge, Tennessee and now of Mannheim prison in Germany. Mr. Zundel was just shipped in chains to Germany after the most shameful imaginable quasi-legal terrorism and sham proceedings by the governments of the United States and Canada. The Star Chamber has returned to North America. Mr. Zundel's "crime" is that of publicly doubting what Jews say about World War II -- nothing more. All else is pretext. The "missed immigration hearing" was the Bush-neocon administration's pretext to kidnap him and ship him from his home and hearth and wife into Canada, where he was held in solitary confinement for two years without charge and subjected to a secret trial under a "judge" who once headed the secret police agency which knowingly put him in mortal danger, probably hoping to kill him on orders of its Jewish masters.

So now the Alice-in-Wonderland "ruling" has been issued, and the innocent writer and thinker Ernst Zundel is in yet another prison, now charged in Germany with doubting the extremely doubtful but legally-protected story of the "Holocaust." So now the focus shifts to Europe, where awareness of Jewish power is growing and yet also where free speech is not a right and doubting the Jewish version of World War II history is a crime.

To discuss this important event we have as our guest today Mr. Mark Weber, Director of the Institute for Historical Review. Mr. Weber is not only an historian, but he has served as the Zundel family's American spokesman, giving many media interviews, organizing protests and speaking events in the cause of freeing this innocent man.

Kevin Alfred Strom: Welcome to the program, Mark.

Mark Weber: Thank you very much, Kevin. It's a pleasure to be on again.

KAS: Can you give us a brief synopsis of the events beginning with the judge's "ruling" in Canada a few days ago?

MW: Well, the last several weeks have been dramatic. It was on the 24th or 25th that Judge Blais handed down his long-awaited decision on the accusation that Ernst Zundel is a "threat to national security" -- which is fantastic, really. Ernst Zundel has been held for two years in solitary confinement in Canadian detention on the charge that he's a "threat to national security." Just about every neutral observer of the scene rejects that as an empty pretext. It's amazing that in the last several days even a number of journalists on national television have stressed, admitted, or acknowledged, over and over, that this charge is really preposterous.

In any case, Judge Blais handed down his ruling and declared that Ernst Zundel is a "threat to national security." Now he did so on the basis of evidence that no one can see. It seems to be based entirely on who Ernst Zundel has met with and talked with over the past several years, and he alleges that Ernst Zundel is a "central figure" in a sinister network of right-wingers, nationalists, White supremacists, and so forth. But no actual evidence of any wrongdoing or any real threat was cited by the judge. And it only underscored the emptiness of the pretext under which Ernst Zundel has been held.

Very shortly after Judge Blais issued this ruling, Ernst Zundel was informed that he would be deported to Germany. He's a German national, and although he had been living in Canada for more than 40 years, for the last several years -- until he was incarcerated in Canada -- he had been living in Tennessee with his wife. On the second of March, Ernst Zundel was packed up, put on an airplane, and sent to Germany. And as we speak he's now being held in a prison in Mannheim, Germany, and he has been charged with violating that country's strange law which makes it a crime to "deny the Holocaust," that is, to dispute the official version of the fate of Europe's Jews during World War II.

It's unclear what will happen next, when there will be a trial, and so forth.

One of the amazing facets of this whole thing is that before he was deported from the United States two years ago, Ernst Zundel had been living quietly in Tennessee with his wife, Ingrid Rimland. He's now become far better known -- and his whole case has become far better known -- as a result of his arrest in the United States, his deportation to Canada first and now to Germany. The case has now become an international affair. Ernst Zundel and his ordeal are now much better known that ever they were before he was taken away in February 2003.

KAS: Indeed. How is Mrs. Zundel -- Ingrid Rimland Zundel -- taking this?

MW: Well, I spoke with her just the other day. It's a big blow, of course. She's afraid she'll never see her husband again.

As it happens, on the third of February, she and I spoke at a meeting here in southern California organized by the IHR. This was the first address that Ingrid had given to any audience about her husband's ordeal, about the background of the whole thing, since he was taken away from her in February of 2003. She talked about how, right after he was arrested, it was a really great blow. She was very subdued and it was very difficult. Then, of course, life picks up and a new pattern emerges. And she has, with great fortitude, borne this tremendous burden that has fallen on her shoulders, organizing this campaign for his release during the past couple of years.

And when I spoke to her again just a few days ago, she was of course very subdued again. It's a terrible blow, and she's afraid she'll never see him again. She runs the risk, of course, even visiting him in Germany, that she might be arrested herself and put in prison, because the laws in Germany are very bizarre in this respect.

KAS: What a sad, sad situation for a married couple to be in.

MW: It's a very very sad situation. There's a number of aspects of this whole case that are really remarkable. Ernst Zundel was arrested and taken away in Tennessee on the pretext that he had missed an immigration hearing. He was held in Canada for two years in solitary confinement on the empty pretext that he's a "threat to national security." And now he's being held in Germany on the charge that he "denies the Holocaust." In all three cases, the charges are empty or they are political in nature or both. But, no matter the character of the individual circumstances in each case, they all point up the tremendous symbolic role that Ernst Zundel has taken on.

It's important to stress that Ernst Zundel has been targeted in this way not because of anything he's actually done. I mean, the charge that he's a "threat to national security" is really preposterous on its face, as even the leading newspaper in Canada, the Globe and Mail, has on two occasions editorially affirmed. What's significant is that Ernst Zundel fought a tremendous battle in the courts in the 1980s over the Holocaust issue. He enormously publicized the entire Holocaust Revisionist case of skepticism about the official Holocaust story. And I can attest personally -- I've seen this myself -- that the Canadian Jewish groups and the American Jewish groups absolutely hate this man and are determined to put him away and shut him up any way they can.

KAS: Yes; when you strip away all the legal pretexts and the sham moralizing it comes to down to a case of Jewish vengeance.

MW: A popular public affairs program in Canada called The Michael Coren Show has dealt -- three or four times now in the last few weeks -- with the Zundel case. And there's been unanimous agreement -- even by the host of the show, who's Jewish, and the others who've been on the show -- that Ernst Zundel is not a threat to national security. But one guest in particular was emphatic in saying that Zundel is in prison because Jewish groups want him in prison. This is a point which very few people are willing to say openly, but which must be said.

If Ernst Zundel is not really a threat to national security, then an immense injustice has been done to this man. He's been held for two years, then, unjustly. He's a victim -- he's not a perpetrator -- he's a victim of injustice. And the question arises: Who are the perpetrators? -- and how can they be held accountable for the injustice against him and against others like him?

KAS: Indeed. We must not forget that.

Is anyone able to speak with Mr. Zundel?

MW: Well, I don't know now what the situation is, how freely he is able to speak. When he was in solitary confinement in Canada, he was permitted to make collect telephone calls out, as long as the authorities were notified in advance to whom he was calling. As your listeners may know from previous broadcasts, he was held under draconian conditions. The light was never turned off in his cell; he was not permitted to have even a pen, he had to write with pencils; he was not allowed to have a desk -- very draconian. I don't know now what the situation is, but it's hard to imagine that circumstances that he will be held under in Germany will be any worse than they were in Canada.

At least now he has the right to confront the evidence against him, whatever it is, and to deal with it in a kind of normal way. When someone is held in Canada or other countries under the pretext of "national security," all the normal rules are thrown out the window, and, as I mentioned, in Zundel's case in Canada he was not permitted to confront or refute or respond to the supposed evidence that was presented against him.

KAS: So this is not going to be a secret trial, as was the one in Canada.

MW: Right. One of the remarkable aspects of the case now in Germany is that Ernst Zundel has been charged with "Holocaust denial" because of what's been posted on the so-called Zundelsite. ( which is linked to the Institute for Historical Review site, ) The Zundelsite contains quite a lot of material that is called "Holocaust denial." But it's important to remember a couple of things. First, the Web site, despite the name, is not really Ernst Zundel's Web site. And that's not just a quibble. His wife runs the Web site. His wife controls the Web site. Not only does Ernst Zundel not have access to it -- he doesn't even know the password.

But the most obvious evidence that the site is not run by Ernst Zundel is the fact that it's been running for two years while he's been in solitary confinement in Canada.

Second, the Web site is based not in Germany or even in Canada, but in the United States. And to punish a person for what is posted on a Web site in another country -- where that material is legal -- opens up a very dangerous door for abuse. Let us consider for a moment the implications if that becomes the general principle. It could mean, for example, that a Chinese person living in the United States who posts something on an American Web site denouncing Communist rule in China, could be punished and even extradited from the United States to China and punished there for doing something that's quite legal in this country but illegal in China. As everyone knows, there are laws all around the world that we in America don't agree with -- in fact, there are laws in America that Americans fifty years ago wouldn't have agreed with. So for a person to make a statement on a Web site in a country where it's legal, and then have that person punished in another country, is a very dangerous thing indeed.

KAS: There are some of your writings up on the Zundelsite. And I know that there are some of mine there as well. Haven't some of your writings there been the subject of legal proceedings?

MW: Right. Some essays that I've written, which are posted on the IHR Web site, are also posted on the Zundelsite. And they've been, under German law, "indexed." That means they're not exactly banned, but there are certain restrictions on them. They're put in a category in Germany similar to the category under which pornography is placed.

And Jewish groups in Canada tried, after they were unsuccessful in "getting" Zundel during the 1980s, to shut him up and punish him for what appeared on the Zundelsite during the 1990s. This was done before a quasi-legal body called the "Human Rights Tribunal" and on two occasions I testified before this tribunal on behalf of Ernst Zundel. And part of the reason I testified was, as you mentioned, that some of the writings that were objected to were written by me.

But the incredible thing is that these writings, because of the court cases that Ernst Zundel fought in the 1980s, were legal in printed form in Canada -- and are now legal in printed form in Canada -- but Jewish organizations were trying to punish or shut up Ernst Zundel for these same writings when they appeared on the Internet on the Zundelsite -- which, as I said, is run by his wife and not by him and is based in the United States.

KAS: It sounds like the court of the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland.

MW: On the fourth of February we held a demonstration outside the Canadian Consulate in downtown Los Angeles, and there were maybe 50 Los Angeles policemen in the middle of the street separating our demonstration from the very raucous demonstration by the Jewish Defense League on the other side of the street. I can say that one of the most gratifying aspects of that demonstration was the support we got from people who represent a whole range of political views. Ernst Zundel has become a symbol -- a lightning rod -- a rallying point -- for people concerned about the issue of freedom of speech. And it's very gratifying to see the kind of support that he's gotten on this matter. By the same token, it really points up the hypocrisy of these so-called defenders of free speech -- that they have not supported Ernst Zundel in this because they do not want to be associated with a person who holds these views on the Second World War and so forth. But there's been a wide range of support -- and growing support for Ernst Zundel the longer he was held.

The demonstration we held on the fourth of February was coordinated with demonstrations in other American cities on that same day or the next day, and also in Tokyo, in Stockholm, and in Canada as well. And I just received a report that today, in Mannheim, Germany, there were forty to fifty people demonstrating and distributing leaflets supporting Ernst Zundel. Now it's hard to say what's going to happen, but there's every prospect that the Zundel case will become an important case in Germany as well.

KAS: Excellent. I'm glad to hear that.

Who has failed us in this regard? Who has failed us in standing up for Ernst Zundel's freedom of speech? How about Amnesty International?

MW: On just the immediate issue -- and this is a point I made in my talk just a few weeks ago -- their behavior has been hypocritical. Amnesty International, which is probably the most prestigious international organization for political prisoners, has taken the view that those people who are incarcerated or punished for free speech that is labeled "hateful" don't deserve their support. Amnesty International has shown its hypocrisy, and the limitations of its adherence to its own principles, in the Zundel case.

But there's more than that. It's outrageous that the American media have failed to publicize the Zundel case or to denounce the treatment of Zundel fervently or in any really meaningful way.

It's really part of a larger problem. In a number of European countries -- France, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands and so forth -- it's a crime to dispute the official version of World War II history about the Holocaust. My point is that it's a real failure that there has not been more outrage about the very existence of these laws.

KAS: Yes.

MW: This is the only chapter of history that receives this kind of judicial protection -- or, to put it another way, it's a form of selective justice. And selective justice is not justice. It's a form of injustice. And these laws exist because Jewish groups have agitated and promoted and pushed for these laws. Because for Jewish groups, the Holocaust story is a very very important pillar of their psychology, and of their media and cultural role in our society. And anyone who pays even the slightest attention realizes the extent to which the Holocaust has the kind of iconic status it does in our society.

KAS: The Jewish power structure has been able to get these laws enacted in many European countries, whereas they do not have similar laws -- at least, not yet -- in the United States. However, it's sort of ironic that in Europe there seems to be a much greater awareness of Jewish power and the toxic nature of Jewish power than there is in the United States. Do you think that this will be a factor in how the Zundel case is seen in Europe?

MW: Well, I'm not as close as I'd like to be to the situation in Europe. But there does seem to be a shift in Europe about a lot of this. It's been 60 years now since the end of World War II in Europe, and all of these kinds of laws and this kind of special emphasis on Jewish suffering -- almost to the exclusion of, and certainly overshadowing, the suffering of other peoples -- is pretty tiring to millions and millions of people, not only in Europe but around the world. But it's put up with by a lot of people who don't really care what the implications are and so forth.

I think it is harder and harder for a state -- Germany or other states -- to justify putting people in jail for expressing a dissident view about this one chapter in history, and yet not punishing people for dissident views on other subjects. It's a violation of the proclaimed ideals of democracy that these countries all claim to support.

KAS: Are these offenses under which Ernst Zundel is now charged in Germany bailable offenses? I would think that they would be.

MW: In principle, yes. But Ernst Zundel is a special case, for several reasons -- and not just because of his prominence. It's also because he has no real residence in Germany. He hasn't lived in Germany for 40 to 45 years. Normally bail is given when a person has a normal residence in a place. It's fairly easy for the state prosecutor to argue that he shouldn't be given bail on the basis that he's likely to leave the country. Indeed, he wants to leave the country. He doesn't want to be there. He was forced to be there. Normally, he might be given bail. But in this particular situation, it's hard to see. It's also hard to see how the state -- without looking ludicrous -- is going to try and enforce the law in this case, given the fact that -- as I mentioned -- he's been in solitary confinement for two years and can't control the Web site that's supposedly the center of the offense.

Be sure to be with us when we continue this important broadcast, "Zundel's Persecution: By Order of the Jews," next week on American Dissident Voices.


Source: National Vanguard

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