and Jewish Supremacism, Part 2
Elie Wiesel, pictured left, is no
humanitarian: His use of the Holocaust tale is strictly to promote
Israel and the Jewish/Zionist agenda. The flyer at right is distributed
to increase understanding of far more significant crimes against our
own people, crimes which are minimized or covered up by the Jewish
media. On today's program, Mr. Strom interviews leading historian Mark
Weber on the uses of Holocaust propaganda as an instrument of Jewish
An interview with Mark Weber, part 2
American Dissident Voices broadcast
February 5, 2005
by Kevin Alfred Strom
TODAY WE WELCOME BACK the
Director of the Institute for Historical Review, Mr. Mark Weber, for
the second part of our discussion of "Holocaust Remembrance" and Jewish
Mark, it seems that since the 1970s, the
'Holocaust' has actually become an integral facet of Jewish identity,
of how they define themselves as a people.
Mark Weber: Right. It's really so much a part of the Jewish mindset that it's going
to continue regardless, I think, of any calculations of its utility or
how advantageous it is.
Several years ago Abraham Foxman, who is
national director of the Anti-Defamation League, wrote this in the
ADL's own bulletin, called ADL on the Frontline:
"The Holocaust is something different. It
is a singular event. It is not simply one example of genocide but a
near successful attempt on the life of God's chosen children and thus,
on God Himself. It is an event that is the antithesis of Creation as
recorded in the Bible; and like its direct opposite, which is relived
weekly with the Sabbath and yearly with Torah, it must be remembered
from generation to generation."
What that quote underscores is that the
powerful interest that Jews have -- ethnic interests, collective group
interests -- are reinforced, and this is unique, with a special
religious fervor. The religious views of most other people in the world
are essentially universal in nature. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and
so forth have a universal ethic to them, and the religion is open to
everyone. The Jewish religion is not; it's an ethnically based
religion. It's based upon what Jews regard a special covenant, or deal,
between themselves and God. And having one's ethnic interests and one's
religious views harnessed together to the same purpose and the same
direction is a very powerful thing. And when Abraham Foxman talks that
way, he really thinks that hammering away on the Holocaust almost has a
mandate from God.
KAS: Referring to Jewish people
being attacked as "an assault on God himself" -- that really doesn't
sound like he's saying it for our consumption. It sounds like he really
MW: That's right. And this was written in the ADL's own bulletin; it's called ADL on the Frontline, in the January 1994 issue.
You know, we are accused a lot of so-called
"rewriting history." They say that we rewrite history. That's really
absurd. The point of the IHR is to be as truthful and objective about
history as possible, and especially about official or dogmatic history.
And the Holocaust is one of the very best examples I know of how
history is, as it were, rewritten in society at large.
Several years ago, Michael Berenbaum, who
was project director at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, and a
theology professor at Georgetown University -- himself Jewish -- said
this: "The Holocaust was [once] regarded as a side story of the much
larger story of World War II. Now one thinks of World War II as a
background story and the Holocaust as a foreground story."
MW: Winston Churchill wrote a
four-volume history of the Second World War. Dwight Eisenhower
published his own memoir of World War II. Charles de Gaulle, the French
leader, also published a memoir of World War II. Nowhere in any of
those memoirs -- even the one by Churchill, four volumes, and he was
something of a historian -- is there any mention of gas chambers. And
there's only fleeting mention, really, of the fate of Jews in Europe
during that time.
Today, however, Americans are trained to
believe that what happened to Jews in Europe during World War II was
practically the central event of that period. It's a typical
manifestation of the really collectively self-centered view that many
Jews have of history. But what's astonishing is the extent to which
this particular Jewish view of history has found acceptance among
non-Jews in our society.
You know, it's very normal for any group to
commemorate its own dead. But what's perverse is to try to get people
who have no connection, or only the most tenuous connection, to feel
the kind of empathy that one normally feels for one's own kind. It's
kind of like asking other families down the street to feel the same
kind of emotion over the sickness or the death of a child as the
child's parents do in another unrelated family.
According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, something like 20 million Chinese civilians died during the Second
World War. How many Americans know that, or, much less, care? Americans
are trained to think almost reflexively about -- and care about -- the
so-called "six million Jews" who were slaughtered, they say, during
World War II. These same people have not the foggiest idea how many
people of any other group, any other nationality, any other collective,
died during the Second World War.
KAS: Including their own.
MW: Including their own. And that's simply perverse.
KAS: Revisionism hasn't made a
large enough impact on the American psyche. But were you aware that
Revisionism was mentioned in what will be tomorrow's editorial in the Tehran Times?
MW: No, I wasn't.
KAS: Would you like me to read you a couple paragraphs?
KAS: This is from the Tehran Times editorial for January 26th:
' ...It was not long before a group of
revisionist historians in the West began to question the claim that six
million Jews were butchered by the Nazis and even asked whether the
slaughter of six million Jews during World War Two was possible or not.
The revisionist historians have proven in two decades of study that if
Hitler had carried out a systematic program to eradicate the Jews, it
would have taken more time than the six years that the war lasted. They
have also proven that such an act of ethnic cleansing through the use
of the poison gas Zyklon-B, as the Zionists claim, was not possible at
the time. Norman J. Finkelstein, a Jewish professor at New York
University critical of Zionist policies, has called the claim the
"Holocaust Industry", which is only meant to boost support for the
government of Israel.
'Over the past several decades and since
the event was questioned, Zionist propagandists have tried to
substantiate this claim through various means. The Zionists are trying
to revitalize an issue which has become discredited in the eyes of
world public opinion by using the press, radio, television, the
Internet, and, most importantly of all, cinema and the great filmmaking
industry in Hollywood, since most of the significant players of this
influential industry are Jews.
'The issue of the Holocaust and the
anniversaries held for the event are only meant to promote the
repressive policies of the Zionists. ...The declaration that six
million Jews were killed in World War II is an exaggeration of the
truth. Furthermore, the suffering and pains of a nation cannot justify
their crimes against other nations. The issue of the Holocaust is only
being highlighted to cover up Israel's crimes in Palestine.'
MW: Well, I think it's an amazing
editorial for its candor. But it's written by people who already start
from the premise that they're not going to be deceived by Jewish
propaganda or Zionist propaganda. And when one starts with that
assumption, when one looks at history with open eyes, then it's
possible to write and think with much greater objectivity.
KAS: They don't have Jewish-controlled media in Iran, of course.
MW: Right, of course. And for their
own self-preservation, in fact -- as a country, as a state -- it's
necessary to take a stand against Zionist power. Indeed, I think that's
increasingly happening all over the world. People are realizing that
Zionist interests are fundamentally different than the interests of
everyone else -- despite all the efforts to make them seem identical,
like the Holocaust campaign that we've witnessed.
The proof that the Holocaust is not looked
at objectively, but is manipulated, is propagandized, is the fact that
it is the only chapter of history that is protected judicially. In a
number of countries -- Germany, Switzerland, France, the Netherlands,
Belgium, and several other European countries -- it's a crime to, as
they say, "deny" or "whitewash" the Holocaust. Now that's an absurd
position, because even statements that are factually true about the
Holocaust can land a person in jail or force a person into exile or
cause a fine to be imposed.
A good example of that is that several
years ago David Irving, at a talk in Munich, made the point that the
so-called gas chamber shown to the public at the Auschwitz I main camp
is in fact a phony postwar reconstruction. That statement is in fact
true, as even the Auschwitz State Museum in Poland now concedes. But
David Irving was nevertheless fined -- at first 10,000 marks, and the
fine was then increased -- and then he was banned from the country for
having made a statement that was in fact factually true.
The fact that this Holocaust story, this
dogma, has to be and is protected judicially in this way, is itself
evidence that it is not possible in Western society today to look at
that chapter of history with the kind of objectivity and sobriety that
we ought to employ.
KAS: I think it's an admission
that the "Holocaust" claims of the Jewish power structure can't stand
that kind of scrutiny. At least it leads you to suspect that is true.
MW: Right. It's just about
impossible to make headway, even about very simple things. For example,
the "six million" figure is one that just about every serious
historian, even Jewish historians, know is an exaggeration. Now, the
extent of the exaggeration is a matter of some discussion and dispute.
But the "six million: figure is untenable, and I can give many examples
of why. But even to state that in our society is to run the risk of
ruination of one's career; and, in other countries, to risk
imprisonment or fines or being forced into exile.
KAS: Well, if you stated that 20
billion Jews had been killed during World War II, you probably wouldn't
have any legal action taken against you.
MW: Right. Well, just to bring it up
to the present and make a comparison: There seems to be some evidence
that one of the most notorious crimes attributed to Saddam Hussein --
the gassing of Kurds in one particular village -- was either untrue or
might have been carried out by Iranians; it's a rather unclear thing.
You'll find quite a bit on the Internet about that. But if you say
about this alleged atrocity, "I don't think that this is quite the
case," nobody thinks that you're denying that Saddam Hussein ever did
bad things or that you're defending Saddam Hussein.
The same thing is true when one talks about
the American Civil War or the Vietnam War or any other great conflict
in history. The Holocaust is the one chapter in history that is treated
in this specially-protected, Politically Correct way.
KAS: Even when the numbers aren't
questioned, even when the "Jewish Holocaust" is held to be true but
placed in a co-equal position with other genocides in history,
some Jewish groups get upset. For example, in Illinois, Jewish groups
are not happy about a new curriculum which replaces mandatory
"Holocaust Studies" with mandatory "Genocide Studies" which mention the
killings of non-Jews as well. These Jewish groups say that that
"minimizes the Holocaust."
MW: That's an example, again, of the
fact that, for Jews, talking about Jewish suffering is not the same
thing as talking about the suffering of any other people. When Abe
Foxman thinks that killing Jews is like killing God, all fair and
rational and reasonable discussion just goes out the window, it's just
impossible. And Jewish groups insist on this sort of thing. It's almost
as if the word "holocaust" has a little trademark symbol next to it and
people should be very careful how they use it.
But this can't go on forever. It's an
expression of Jewish power, and the Holocaust will continue to play the
role in our society it does as long as that power stays in place. But
the distortion of history that's reflected and shown and manifest in
the Holocaust campaign is just one part of the problem. We live in a
society in which any view other than one that Jewish groups find
acceptable, about any chapter of history, is simply not permitted.
There are many, many examples of that that I could give. It isn't
merely the distortion of this one chapter of history; it's a kind of
systematic distortion of our entire history, across the board --
especially here in the United States.
KAS: In Germany, last Friday,
there was a little bit of defiance of the Holocaust dogma in the
parliament of Saxony, where 12 members of the National Democratic Party
(NPD) created a sensation when they walked out during a "moment of
silence for Holocaust victims." Then later the same day, one of their
members openly referred to what happened to the innocent German people
and others in Dresden in 1945 as a "Holocaust of bombs," trespassing
on, as you say, the Jewish trademark on that word. Do you think that
the members of the NPD are going to face legal troubles for these
MW: It's harder and harder to punish
people when they defy this taboo. It's getting harder and harder to
uphold it, I think. Just the other week, the leader of the National
Front in France made the statement that the occupation of France by
Germany during World War II was not so bad, or not so horrific, or not
so oppressive, or something like that. And there was talk of him being
fined -- and he might be. But it's harder and harder, I think, to keep
As I said, it's really a reflection of
Jewish and Zionist power. And as that power comes more and more under
scrutiny, then our ability to speak openly about this chapter of
history will become greater.
KAS: You were talking earlier
about the "Holocaust" ceremonies at the United Nations. There's a
report that Kofi Annan referred to the ceremonies as "an important
event meant to remember the Jews and others who were murdered at
Auschwitz." The Jews are one category, mentioned first, and everybody
else is just "others." It's a reflection of the Jewish mindset coming
from a non-Jew.
MW: Even that's not acceptable to
most Jews. Jews don't like to have the Holocaust even refer to any
other group except Jews. What they'll say is that the Holocaust was the
murder of Jews -- and whatever happened to anyone else is not the
Holocaust. So, Kofi Annan is already crossing the line a bit when he
talks that way.
KAS: By the way, Deputy Defense Secretary and leading warmonger for the War in Iraq, Paul Wolfowitz, also spoke at that UN ceremony.
MW: It's pretty amazing. The main speaker at that ceremony was Elie Wiesel.
Elie Wiesel is presented in our society as
a "Holocaust survivor" and as a man whose words must be given very
special attention. But Elie Wiesel is no humanitarian. He's a man who
is a very ardent and one-sided supporter of Israel and of Jewish and
Zionist interests. He's refused to condemn Israel, whatever it does,
right from the outset. Israel, for him, doesn't come under the same
More to the point, he's presented as this
man who has a great love for humanity, even though he wrote himself
"Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set aside a zone of hate --
healthy, virile hate -- for what the German personifies and for what
persists in the German. To do otherwise would be a betrayal of the
Now that's an open call for hatred; an open
incitement to hatred. He's urging, calling upon, fellow Jews to feel
hate against Germans. Now, any German, of course, expressing any
sentiment even remotely like that, risks imprisonment or fines or
punishment. But Elie Wiesel is treated, in the United Nations and in
the United States, as this paragon of morality, a way that's just
KAS: In this orgy of perversity
that this "Holocaust Memorial Day" (or week or month or year)
represents, what can rational, thinking people who have a respect for
the truth do to help their fellow citizens refocus and get a little
more realistic perspective?
MW: A few weeks ago I got a call
from a woman who was worried about the way her children in grade school
are inundated with this Holocaust propaganda and she asked "What can I
And I said that the distortion of history
in our schools today is so systematic and so bad that to object to this
or that particular statement is really an almost impossible task. In
fact, the distortion is not so much because this or that statement is
untrue as it is because the information is presented very selectively
and in a very one-sided way. The important thing, I think, and what we
all can do, is keep in mind and tell other people that this campaign is
an expression of power. Most people look at the Holocaust exactly the
way they're expected to; exactly the way the people who make these
films, who make these ceremonies, want them to think. That is, you're
supposed to feel guilty; you're supposed to feel very sympathetic to
Israel and to Jewish interests. This is exactly what the goal is.
If you keep in mind from the outset that
there's an agenda behind it, then you can be alert to it. You'll be
better able to counter it and to keep an open mind.
KAS: What is the IHR planning to do this year to bring consciousness of historical truth to more people?
MW: We have some other events on the
calendar which I can't really go into now, but I urge everyone who's
listening to check out the IHR Web site, ihr.org. The IHR is best known
for dealing with the Holocaust story, but we deal with a great number
of other issues as well. And there's a virtual library -- a huge amount
of information -- on the IHR site and on the sites to which we link.
The best antidote I know of to the kind of distortion of history you'll
get in high schools, grade schools, and in colleges, is to go through
the material on the IHR Web site and related sites in a systematic way.
The availability of all this is already an enormous step forward.
KAS: Thank you, Mark, for all the
work you're doing. Thank you for the excellent work you do at the IHR,
for the events you organize, and for all your wonderful outreach and
support on the Zundel case -- for bringing that forward to the world. I
appreciate that deeply.
And I also thank you for being a marvelous guest on American Dissident Voices.
MW: Thank you very much, Kevin. It's a pleasure and I wish you well.