and Jewish Supremacism, Part 1
Is 'Holocaust Remembrance' tied to
Jewish supremacist domination of the United States? Is it an honest
commemoration of a terrible ordeal, or a tool used to dominate others?
Why does 'The Holocaust' apparently become more significant and receive
even greater attention as it recedes into the past, contrary to most
such events? Today historian Mark Weber, right, of the Institute for
Historical Review, discusses these and other questions with host Kevin
An interview with Mark Weber, part 1
American Dissident Voices broadcast
January 29, 2005
by Kevin Alfred Strom
KAS: THIS WEEK we are happy to
welcome back to our microphones the Director of the Institute for
Historical Review, Mr. Mark Weber. Welcome, Mark.
MW: Thank you very much, Kevin. It's a pleasure to be on the show again.
KAS: Before we get into the main subject of our show, Mark, I know that this
week there are going to be a couple of Ernst Zundel-related events that
the Institute is taking part in. Can you tell us about those briefly?
MW: Yes. We're coming up on the
second anniversary now of the detention in solitary confinement, in a
detention center in Canada, of Ernst Zundel. He's a German-born
activist and writer, most noted for his role in two large trials which
took place in Toronto in the 1980s. For nearly two years now he's been
held in solitary confinement by the Canadian authorities on the really
ridiculous pretext that he's a danger to 'national security.' It's
really an outrage.
I've called him -- and others have
characterized him as -- not only a political prisoner, but the most
prominent political prisoner in North America right now. The pretext is
really bogus; it's an empty one, as even neutral observers, who don't
even like Ernst Zundel's views particularly, acknowledge. The most
prestigious daily newspaper in Canada, the Toronto Globe and Mail, on two occasions has published editorials saying that the incarceration
of Zundel in this way is an assault against the freedoms of all
Canadians, that it's a pretext, that it's motivated by reasons that are
not grounded in national security. And others have also spoken up
Now the case has gotten very little
attention in the United States; it is much better known in Canada. But
it should be better known here in this country, and we're trying to do
what we can about that.
On Friday, the 4th of February, we're going
to be holding a demonstration outside the Canadian Consulate in
downtown Los Angeles, and this is going to coincide with similar
demonstrations at other Canadian diplomatic missions in the United
States. We'll be giving a letter to the Canadian Consulate, similar to
one we gave to the Canadian Consul a couple of years ago, just after
Mr. Zundel was arrested.
And the day before -- Thursday, February
3rd -- Ernst Zundel's wife, Ingrid Rimland Zundel, who lives in
Tennessee, will be speaking at an IHR meeting out here in California;
and we have information about that posted on the home page of our Web
site, ihr.org. She's going to be talking about the outrageous arrest
and incarceration of her husband. One of the outrageous features of
that is that it's highly unusual for a man like Ernst Zundel, who was
going through all of the normal procedures to regularize his status
here as a resident of the United States, to be arrested in this way --
especially considering that he's married to an American citizen. Ingrid
Rimland Zundel is an American citizen.
There's no real proof of it yet, but
there's been a lot of talk that the operating force behind what
happened to Mr. Zundel was this fellow Chertoff, who is the new nominee
for Secretary of Homeland Security in the United States. And that's
very ominous; he's the son of a rabbi, and he has a record of going
after [innocent] people in the name of "fighting terrorism."
The case against Mr. Zundel is a
particularly outrageous one. I urge everyone who's listening to my
voice to learn more about it from the IHR Web site or the Zundelsite,
which is maintained by his wife.
Those are two events which will be coming up here, and there will be other events in other places to coincide with them.
KAS: Very good. Please give my
best to Mrs. Zundel and to Ernst Zundel if you communicate with him;
and I wish those events all success.
You said there was a connection -- I
wasn't aware of this -- between Chertoff and what happened to Ernst
Zundel. Do we have any evidence of this?
MW: There's a little bit of
evidence. Some records have come to light showing collusion between
American and Canadian authorities to have Zundel arrested on February
5th 2003 at his home in Tennessee. And Chertoff was involved in some
similar actions when he was in a previous position. I don't know
myself, yet, of any hard evidence, but there's been some talk of that.
In any case, the situation is all the more ominous now that Chertoff is
nominated as the new head of Homeland Security.
KAS: Yes. The man is a fanatical
Zionist, and what happened to Zundel certainly smacks of Jewish
vengeance -- vengeance for Mr. Zundel's opposition to Jewish power and
Jewish media images of World War II.
MW: Yes. The Zundel case certainly
received some sort of special handling, because it's almost unheard of
in the United States for a person in his position to have been
arrested, on the pretext that he missed a hearing with an American
official. In fact, even that's probably not even true. But whatever
pretext was used, it's very unusual, especially considering he's
married to a U.S. citizen.
KAS: His imprisonment without charge is truly outrageous...
MW: It's really outrageous. He's not
permitted to have a pen. He writes with a pencil. He can't have a desk.
The light in his cell is on 24 hours a day.
KAS: The man is treated worse than some murderers and rapists are treated.
MW: It's true. Paul Fromm, who's
been doing a great job of defending Ernst Zundel and publicizing his
case in Canada, has stressed over and over the outrageous treatment of
this man; a man who is a pacifist, who has no criminal record
whatsoever, whose life is essentially an open book -- and the kid glove
treatment that known rapists, killers, and criminals from other
countries have received from Canadian authorities.
Well, Mark, it's coming up on the 60th
anniversary of the 'liberation of Auschwitz' by the Red Army. And it
looks like that quasi-religious holiday -- Holocaust Remembrance Day --
is going to come early this year.
MW: (laughter) We're going to get a
double whammy this year, Kevin. Holocaust Remembrance Day began
emerging as a major event on the American calendar in the late 1970s
and it is now routinely remembered by political leaders (the Department
of Defense advises military units to remember it, and so forth). Now we
get a double dose because this year, in addition to Holocaust
Remembrance Day which normally comes in April on the anniversary of the
Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 1943, we're also getting a lot of hoopla to
coincide with the liberation of the Auschwitz camp.
So on Monday there was a large memorial
service at the United Nations General Assembly, at which Elie Wiesel
spoke. And, for the first time ever in the General Assembly, prayers
KAS: So never before has there been any kind of prayer there?
MW: That's what the newspapers
reported. So for the first time, it is Jewish prayers. I guess the
United Nations is supposed to have a kind of separation of church and
state -- but in this case, the usual walls are gone.
So we're getting a heavy dose of this, with
not only American but also international commemorations, coinciding
with a great deal of attention on television and in newspapers. There
was a three part series on television, on PBS, called Auschwitz: Inside the Nazi State. Even the title is absurd. It's as if one were to characterize the
Japanese internment camps in the United States in World War II as
somehow emblematic or typical of the American state at that time.
MW: And that's just by the by; we're getting a very heavy dose of all this right now.
KAS: Well, it's certainly a sign
of Jewish power -- that 60 years after an alleged event; and after many
decades of wars and massacres, some of them the direct result of Jewish
aggression, that the wartime experiences of one people, one people
only, are held up as unique and as the ultimate example of all that is
evil, never to be forgotten; to be celebrated -- and monetarily
compensated -- above any other event in human history.
MW: Yes, and this is the point I've
been making in a number of interviews I've been giving and that we've
made over the years in talks and in booklets and at our conferences:
That Holocaust commemoration, despite the motives that are given for it
publicly, is really an effort to create sympathy and support for the
Jewish Zionist goals and agenda.
Now, having said that, it's also really
part and parcel of how Jews traditionally look at their own history.
Jewish history, as they see it, is a long series of events, many of
them cataclysmic, that show constant conflict between Jews and
You know, the days marked in the calendar
of the Christian year, such as Christmas or Easter, are events in the
life of Jesus. The days marked in the calendar of Muslims are key
events in the life of Mohammed. The key dates in the Jewish calendar
are dates in Jewish history: events such as Passover, when God
supposedly killed all the first born of Egypt. My point is that,
throughout history, Jews see this constant struggle between Jews and
Gentiles -- manifested in the Inquisition in Spain; in the expulsions
of Jews from every European country at one time or another; in the
story from the book of Esther in the Bible in which, supposedly, the
'anti-Semitic' prime minister or chancellor of Babylon plotted to kill
Jews and was himself killed; in certain events in ancient Egypt; and,
of course, climaxing in the enormous outburst of anti-Jewish policy in
Europe during the middle part of the 20th century.
KAS: You could say that their calendar is a calendar of war, death, and victimhood.
MW: Well, one of the points that
Jewish writers have made over and over is that an essential feature of
the whole Holocaust story for Jews is that the Gentile is never to be trusted; that non-Jews are always actual or potential enemies; and that this
hatred of Jews is an essential part of the relationship of non-Jews and
Jews going back to the beginning of time.
KAS: Well, it's getting to be a bit much, wouldn't you say, Mark? I just read an article in the Australian newspaper, The Age, in which they used the phrase "Holocaust fatigue." Do you think anyone is suffering from "Holocaust fatigue" these days? http://tinyurl.com/6tnay
MW: (laughter) Well, the thing that
will not really work about all of this is that however important this
might be for Jews, and however understandable it might be given Jewish
history, it's really not going to stick for non-Jews, because it has no
real transcendent character. Their point is that we're all supposed to
be very, very especially concerned about the fate and the suffering of
Jews, more than any other people.
Now that might work for a while. It might
work for some people subject to a heck of a lot of propaganda, as we
have in this country. And, in the United States, there's almost a
built-in reflexive sense among Americans that Jewish suffering deserves
more sympathy and attention than the suffering of any other people,
that Jewish concerns should be American concerns. But that's a pretty
hard thing to keep up forever. And it's pretty hard to keep up around
the world, when, for most of the world, one of the most oppressive and
rogue outlaw states in the world today is in fact the state of Israel.
MW: It's a remarkable thing. The
whole world has seen the famous photograph from 1943 of a Jewish boy in
the Warsaw Ghetto with his hands up, with a German soldier in the
background with a gun. And that's supposed to evoke sympathy. But
similar photos like that come out weekly or daily from occupied
Palestine, with Israeli soldiers not just passively holding a weapon --
but beating or humiliating Palestinians. And those pictures are not
only up to date, they're in color. And the world is a lot more aware of
that, as it rightly should be, than of what happened in Poland 60 years
KAS: Indeed. I've seen them by the hundreds on the Internet; they're very easy to find.
You say that the story of unique Jewish
suffering isn't sticking. There was a poll in Canada just the other day
that found that three out of every ten Canadians failed to identify
Jews as the "primary victims of the Holocaust." In fact, only 40 per
cent. of the respondents indicated that six million Jews died during
World War II.
MW: I'd like to put that into
perspective, if I could, Kevin. It's a normal thing for events to
recede in popular memory as time goes by. I mean, that's a natural
thing. People are more aware of events that happened more recently.
MW: But in the case of the Holocaust, with the passage of time the emphasis, the hoopla, the media devotion to this subject has grown.
Anyone who's over, say, 50 or 60 years old
will remember that there was almost nothing about all this back in the
1950s or 60s. There was some, but nothing like the cascade that we've witnessed in the last ten or 20 years. It
grew, really, in the late 1970s. It was promoted by television. A
number of books have pointed out that the formation of the President's
Council on the Holocaust under president Carter, which later became the
United States Holocaust Memorial Council, a federal government agency,
was set up as a sop to Jewish political interests in the United States
at that time.
And that's the important thing: The
Holocaust campaign isn't some neutral commemoration that comes out of a
concern for humanity, but is an expression of Jewish power. It is meant
to further Jewish and Zionist interests.
Just the other week, Tony Judt, who's a
Jewish scholar and director of the Remarque Institute at New York
University, wrote an article in The Nation, a prominent New
York periodical, and he had this to say on that subject: "The Shoah
[the Hebrew word for the Holocaust] is frequently exploited in America
and Israel to deflect and forbid any criticism of Israel. In fact, the
Holocaust of Europe's Jews is nowadays exploited thrice over: It gives
American Jews in particular a unique retrospective victim identity; it
allows Israel to trump any other nation's sufferings and justify its
own excesses with the claim that the Jewish catastrophe was unique and
incomparable; and, in contradiction to the first two, it is adduced as
an all-purpose metaphor for evil -- anywhere, everywhere, and always --
and taught to school children all over America and Europe without any
reference to context or cause. This modern instrumentalization of the
Holocaust for political advantage is ethically disreputable and
Now, that's a rare voice to say that. But
there are other voice, even Jewish voices, who make the same point as
Tony Judt does in this very recent article. For example, Israeli
Holocaust historian Yehuda Bauer, professor at Hebrew University in
Jerusalem, said some years ago: "Whether presented authentically or
inauthentically, with empathy and understanding or as monumental
kitsch, the Holocaust has become a ruling symbol of our culture. Hardly
a month passes without a new TV production, a new film, a number of new
books of prose or poetry dealing with the subject."
Another Jewish official, Ian Kagedan, who
was director of government relations at B'nai B'rith Canada, talked
about the importance of Holocaust propaganda in eastern Europe after
the fall of Communism. And we've seen that manifest in many, many ways.
One of them is that one country after another in eastern and central
Europe has been shaken down for money, to be given to Jewish
organizations. He wrote, in an essay published in a Toronto newspaper
in 1991: "In the moral reconstruction of eastern Europe, coming to
terms with the Holocaust must figure prominently." He says "The
Holocaust stands as Western Civilization's greatest failure, and
achieving our quest of a New World Order depends on our learning the
Holocaust's lessons." What he really means when he says that is that
Gentiles have to learn what we [i.e., Jews] mean by the lessons of the Holocaust.
One of the principal philanthropists of the
Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, which is one of the most
important Holocaust centers and a very ardent supporter of Israel and
its policies, said this -- and this was quoted several years ago in the New Republic by a Jewish writer. "It's a sad fact," he said,
"that Israel and Jewish education and all the other familiar buzzwords
no longer seem to rally Jews behind the community. The Holocaust,
though, works every time." The person who quoted him, Leon Wieseltier,
in the New Republic, said "His candor was refreshing, even if
it was obscene. On the subject of the extermination of the Jews of
Europe, the Jews of America are altogether too noisy." Well, there may
be voices of caution like this, Kevin, but the noise is going to
continue -- and it's going to grow.
In fact, it's remarkable that the 60th
anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz is receiving much more
attention, much more hoopla and fanfare, than the 50th anniversary.
KAS: Why is that, Mark?
MW: Because, as Jewish leaders keep stressing, "Never forgive, never forget." When they say never, they mean never. And it's an important card to play. It's one of the few cards that
Jewish and Zionist groups still have to play that sort of works. So
much so that they can even play it at the United Nations. Even though,
around the world, the tide, I think, is clearly running against Jewish
and Zionist interests and power in a way that we haven't seen.