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History: Who Needs It? Part 2,
An Interview with Mark Weber

American Dissident Voices broadcast
October 12, 2002
by Kevin Alfred Strom


On our last program, we began our two-part series entitled "History: Who Needs It?", an interview with historian Mark Weber, director of the Institute for Historical Review. We conclude that interview today.
We received a note after last week's broadcast from Dr. Frederick Töben of Australia's Adelaide Institute, who has been the subject of legal proceedings that forbid him to question Jewish statements about World War II on his Web site, Dr. Töben writes to assure us that, although he takes personal responsibility under the law, his organization has associates in every Australian state, and that one of his associates in Tasmania, Mrs. Olga Scully, has also come under legal fire there for writing and publishing words which displease Jews. For more information, you may write to
As we begin today's interview with Mark Weber, we were discussing the very laws which were used to persecute Dr. Töben, the laws which the Jews would like to see enacted here in the United States, laws which make it a crime to doubt what Jews tell you about race and history.

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KAS: If there was a more realistic view of the so-called "holocaust" if it wasn't regarded as a unique event in history -- then perhaps the moral force which underlies those laws would disappear.
MW: Well, yes. I used to think that discrediting the holocaust legend would result in something very dramatic happening. I now take a somewhat different view. I now think that the holocaust story plays the role in our society that it does because it's an expression itself of Jewish power and influence. And as long as that power remains in place there will be no real dismantling of the story. It's a kind of a chicken-and-egg thing.
But I think that something very dramatic is happening in the world. There's a growing awareness everywhere of Jewish power and how it operates. And I think that going directly and exposing that power, and its impact -- as it is manifest in United States relations with Israel, the role of Israel in the world, Israel's brutality against Arabs, and so forth -- all of that is really a more direct and essential task at this point, especially because I think, for many people, what happened to Jews in Europe sixty years ago is simply less and less important and relevant.
KAS: The National Alliance is concerned, and I'm concerned, with obtaining self-determination and freedom for people of European descent. And I see that the Jewish power structure, here in this country and internationally, in hostile to our desire to control our own destiny. There are parallels to our desire for self-determination among other peoples, are there not? And those peoples also have conflicts -- their national aspirations are in conflict -- with the Jewish power structure.
MW: Yes. This is where there's some common interest. Jewish power has a determined interest, manifest throughout the ages, to deny to every people their self-determination. In fact, I was just on a talk show earlier today, with a Jewish talk show host in Boston, on this very point. Jewish groups insist on making the societies in which they live as multicultural, as non-ethnic, as stripped of any cultural, religious, or ethnic identity as possible -- because, in such a society, Jews, who are a very focused, well-organized group can be maximally successful. Their power is, in a sense, directly proportionate to the lack of cohesion among the non-Jews among whom they live.
But, of course, Jews insist on a completely different standard in the one state that they directly control, that is, Israel. They insist that Israel must -- and should -- be an explicitly Jewish state. But they don't want that same standard applied to non-Jewish societies: France or Norway or whatever -- and certainly not to the United States.
KAS: Yes.
MW: And the struggle against this Jewish Zionist power, I think, is in the interest of all peoples, all nations, all cultures, all religions, because it's a threat to the interests and the integrity of every people and of every nation.
KAS: After the September 11th terror attacks in this country, we saw an effort by the Bush administration to launch and popularize a "war on terror" that, at first, seemed to be a limited one. But now it seems to be expanding into something like a worldwide "Vietnam without borders." It seems to me that though many Americans are still whipped up in the frenzy that the administration has tried to inculcate in them, these efforts are meeting with a lot of resistance overseas. That's part of the rising awareness of this Jewish power structure, particularly in Europe. Would you agree with that?
MW: Yes, I would. And I think that America's perverse, unnatural alliance with Zionism, with Jewish power, is directly a reason why the United States finds itself increasingly isolated in the world. And it's now manifest more and more in the debate about a war against Iraq. Harry Elmer Barnes once said that the distortion of truth is most evident during times of war. And during this time in which our President says we're involved in a war against terrorism, Americans are just told stupendous lies by our leaders.
We're told that there's some relationship between militant Islam and the government of Iraq. It's a lie. The Iraqi regime is a secular regime. It's hostile to militant Islam. It has nothing in common with al-Qaeda or the Taliban regime.
The American government has made a ham-handed effort to try to show some link between Iran and the Taliban regime. That again is a complete perversion, a complete distortion of the truth. The truth is exactly the opposite.
Most dramatically, our President and our leaders have told the American people that the terrible attack that took place on September 11th had no relationship at all -- no relationship whatsoever -- with American foreign policy. That's a lie.
KAS: The administration line is that the Moslems "hate our freedom."
MW: Yes. It's absurd. The real basic fact is: America had no enemies in the Arab or Muslim world until the state of Israel was founded, and until America made this alliance with Israel. Before 1948, before the establishment of the state of Israel, America was the most beloved country in Arab and Muslim countries, among those peoples. But our perverse relationship, our unstinting support, what politicians call our "special relationship" with Israel, has skewed our relations with the Arab and Muslim world -- and now, I think, increasingly with the entire rest of the world. This is reflected -- time and time and time again -- in United Nations votes in which Israel and the United States are completely alone against the rest of the world. Of course, Israel and its friends and apologists claim that this is somehow a manifestation of anti-Semitism. This is crazy: the truth is that it's not the rest of the world that are out of step, it's Israel and the Jewish-influenced United States that is out of step.
KAS: It seems to me that there's a realignment that is going on in the world today. And increasingly it is the United States and Israel versus everybody else.
MW: Yes. And this is a very dangerous thing. Americans should ponder very carefully the awesome implications of this. I don't think that America has ever been as isolated in the word as it is now -- and as I think it increasingly will be. Kofi Annan just recently said that the whole world wants Israel to withdraw from the occupied Palestinian territories. And he said "I don't think the whole world's wrong." Well, the only country that supports the policies of the Sharon government -- not just in word, but in cash with billions of dollars annually, with military support, with diplomatic support -- is the United States of America. This is not only a grotesque betrayal of the principles that we claim to uphold, but it is more and more obviously a form of hypocrisy that the whole world can see.
KAS: With this change in world perceptions and the increasing isolation of the United States and Israel, it seems to me that the American people have no sense of this at all. Is the IHR dealing with these contemporary issues as well as with the historical background to them?
MW: Yes. The two are so tightly involved. Let me put it another way: During the 1920s and 30s, there was an immense intellectual interest in the question of the responsibility for the outbreak of World War I. But the interest in that issue basically evaporated, at least on a popular level, as war clouds gathered in the late 1930s, and with the outbreak of World War II. The origins of World War I are still of some interest to some academics. By somewhat the same token -- it's not an exact parallel -- the interest in what happened to Jews in Europe during World War II is a lot less, given what's going on in the Middle East now, when, as Jewish groups proclaim with some exaggeration, the very existence of the state of Israel and the whole Zionist experiment is in question.
It's just that we're entering a new era. An era in which not only has World War II passed, but even the post-war era has passed, that is, the Cold War era in which the world was divided roughly along pro-Soviet and pro-American lines. Now, it's a world in which the United States is the one giant superpower, and it's been hijacked in service of Jewish-Israeli interests. And that's a very, very dangerous thing. America's taking on the attributes of an empire. We dictate to the world the form of government there ought to be. And ultimately I can't see how that can possibly be successful, except with enormous suffering in a vain effort, ultimately, to try to uphold this imperial power.
KAS: What are some of the potential consequences for the American people if, for example, we invade Iraq?
MW: Just one small example that's been pointed out is that this war in Iraq, sources tell us, is going to cost us between 100 and 200 billion dollars. That's a good bit of money. Now, unlike the first Gulf War, which was largely financed by Saudi Arabia and Japan and other countries, this new Gulf War (which has, as you know, almost no support outside of the United States and Israel) will be a very costly one even just economically for the American people. And the consequences of that will be hardly known.
It was interesting, just the other day, that several high-level military leaders all struck notes of great caution and great warning in talking about the dangers of rushing ahead in this proclaimed war against Iraq. I think it's just utterly immoral to hold Iraq to standards to which we don't hold Israel or other countries. And on that basis alone, people around the world are unconvinced by the arguments given by our leaders for this war.
KAS: One of the pretexts that is being used by the pundits to convince us that Iraq deserves to be invaded -- deserves a "regime change" -- is its violation of UN orders. Isn't there another nation in the Middle East which conspicuously ignores UN resolutions?
MW: Kevin, it's so blatant that people refer to it without even having to make the argument. No country has violated more Security Council resolutions than the state of Israel. Just three days ago, the Security Council passed yet another resolution (from which the United States abstained) that Israel has been violating. To say that Iraq should be devastated because it's violated Security Council resolutions is astonishing on its face. But it's just a lie -- an absurdity -- given that this very argument is made by a country that excuses and rewards Israel for its blatant violations, on a much greater scale, of Security Council resolutions of the United Nations.
KAS: Well, you've got a tremendous job in front of you to dispel the ignorance of the American people on these subjects. It's hard to blame the American people when their media are so one-sided on these subjects. What can an organization like the IHR, which obviously doesn't have the resources of Fox News or CBS, do to change this situation?
MW: Well, we have a small staff and a very limited budget. But our enemies seem to understand our ability to influence things, more than many other people. Just a few weeks ago, the Forward, one of the most influential Jewish weekly papers in the country, ran a front page article expressing concern about the IHR, about my speaking on radio, and about the conference we recently had, because they're struck and alarmed that the IHR goes at this issue in a sober, well-grounded way. And we have a long track record of that. Our ability to influence people is increasing, and I think it will increase even more. We have a tremendous challenge, particularly right now, because we're heading toward a war. And during a time of war, passions are all the greater, the government may do very dangerous things, but our work of enlightening people about the background to this war and about the power behind this war -- this Jewish Zionist influence and power -- is all the more crucial right now than perhaps it's ever been.
KAS: Recently, George Bush called Ariel Sharon a "man of peace." I know you wrote to that subject. Can you tell us a little bit about Mr. Sharon's historical record?
MW: [amused] As I commented at the time, no political leader of any other country in the world would dare utter such an absurdity. Not even in Israel would a political leader stand up and call him a man of peace. He might be known for a lot of things, but not as a man of peace. In 1953 he was involved in the so-called Qibya Massacre, and was rebuked by the United Nations. Israel was rebuked by the United Nations for this massacre of people in Jordan in that year. But most dramatically he was the man who, in 1982 (along with Begin who was Prime Minister at that time -- Sharon was Defense Minister of Israel), lied about the nature of the invasion of Lebanon, which was not only itself a war crime, but which resulted in enormous suffering and death and destruction. And, of course, he bore (as even an Israeli commission determined) partial responsibility for the horrible massacre of Palestinian civilians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps. All this is well documented. The whole world knows this.
For America to align itself with Ariel Sharon blatantly underscores the hypocrisy, the lie of America's pretense that all it does is uphold peace, freedom, democracy and justice and so forth. That's a lie. To me, if the United States were to apply to Israel the standards that it has applied to Serbia or to Iraq, we would be capturing, kidnapping Sharon and putting him on trial as a war criminal as we did with Noriega and as we hope to do with Milosevic in Serbia. Sharon's bloody record is far worse than those of those two men.
KAS: Just in the last dozen weeks or so he's ordered missiles sent into apartment buildings, refugee camps have been attacked…
MW: Yes, that's quite true. To me, one of the most obvious things is in 1982. The invasion of Lebanon was an act of war. It was a war crime.
KAS: What's the difference between the invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and the invasion of Kuwait in 1991?
MW: Good point. Of course, Iraq has a lot more legitimate claim to Kuwait than Israel does to Lebanon, but that's a whole other thing. For twenty years Israel occupied southern Lebanon in violation of a very explicit United Nations Security Council resolution.
KAS: Twenty years!
MW: That's just one of numerous Security Council resolutions that Israel has violated over the years.
KAS: Can you tell us about some of your recent publications?
MW: Of course, we publish a Journal; we just held a conference in June that was very successful, with very good speakers, outstanding speakers I think; we issued a new leaflet entitled "A Look at the Powerful Jewish Lobby" which I wrote and which within just weeks was widely reprinted, not only on the Internet of course and posted, but it was reprinted in weekly and monthly newspapers in California and Pennsylvania, and reprinted also in the leading English-language daily newspaper in Saudi Arabia, and it's now been translated into Arabic and distributed in Arab countries as well. We also launched just recently a new radio talk show project which has resulted in some appearances now on radio talk shows -- one of them was just this afternoon.
KAS: So you're actually getting on establishment radio stations?
MW: Right. This afternoon, as I mentioned, I was on this talk show in Boston hosted by this Jewish host who wasn't very friendly, but I think I made the points that needed to be made.
KAS: You have an Internet presence as well.
MW: Yes. The IHR Web site is a formidable one. It's not as glitzy as some sites, but it is a virtual library of information on a whole range of topics. And I invite your listeners to check it out: it's . It's very easy to get to. It's linked to a lot of sites, including, I think, the National Alliance site. It is, I think, a revelation for a lot of people, and of course it has useful and well-documented information.
KAS: And if people are not connected to the Internet who might be listening today, how can they reach you?
MW: They can reach us by mail at Post Office Box 2739, Newport Beach CA 92659 USA, or they can reach us by fax at 949-631-0981.
KAS: The search for historical truth is not something that can ever be completed, is it, Mark?
MW: No. It's a never-ending quest. You know, history is really two things, in a sense. One is it's an academic discipline. But history is also how we view ourselves. Oswald Spengler once said that how we learn history is another form of our political education. And learning and understanding history -- true history, accurate history -- is absolutely essential if, as a people, as a nation (for the sake not only of our country and society, but for humanity) we are to survive and be free.
As you know, there is tremendous distortion of our American history, White American history, European history and so forth. And this is absolutely crucial. A people without a sense of who they are, a truthful understanding of their past, is unable to make any kind of informed decisions about their own future. We're doomed, unless we have a solid foundation rooted in an understanding of history.
KAS: Yes, without an understanding of our history, we do not know who we are. And we might as well be dead.
MW: Right.
KAS: Your work is very important. I'm very glad you're there. Someday, I think, if civilization survives, if scholarship survives, there will be men and women who will thank you for your life and what you did with it.
MW: Thank you, Kevin, and thank you for inviting me to be on the broadcast.
I thank Mark Weber for agreeing to be a guest on American Dissident Voices and I thank you for being a listener this week.
If you are interested in pursuing the issues we discuss on American Dissident Voices in greater depth, I urge you to get a copy of our new magazine, National Vanguard number 118. The new full-color issue of National Vanguard magazine has just arrived from the printers and is available for the first time to listeners of this week's program. National Vanguard is uncompromising -- unequivocal -- and unequaled when it comes to providing the information which White men and women need for an understanding of racial realities in these rapidly-changing times. You can get a single copy of National Vanguard magazine by ordering item 3118 for $5 postpaid, or subscribe for six issues by ordering item number 3000 for $18 in the US, in Canada order item 3001 for $26, and worldwide order item 3003 for $36 postpaid. Write to National Vanguard Books, Box 330, Hillsboro WV 24946 USA or log on to or
Until next week, this is Kevin Alfred Strom reminding you that freedom is not free, free men are not equal, and equal men are not free.


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